In the world of startups, it’s common to put all of the focus on growing the business itself. But what about the founder? How does the leader effectively grow with his or her company?
One great way is to learn from those who’ve started their journey ahead of you.
Thankfully, there are many seasoned entrepreneurs, like Nachum Kligman, who have made it their goal to save you some pain as you grow.
On this episode of Evolved Sales LIVE, host Jonathan Fischer sits down with Nachum to discuss the most valuable insights he has gained through many years of experience as a startup founder including 5 key things you should not do as a founder if you want to maximize your success.
Don't forget to follow us on LinkedIn for more engaging sales insights and discussions! Happy watching!
As a consultant, executive coach, and the founder of several companies, including most recently, Book like a Boss, a Saas platform for selling services, Nachum has a lot to share about what works and what does NOT work as a founder.
Check out the transcription of this webinar episode below!
Jonathan Fischer 0:04
Welcome back. Thanks for joining us. I'm Jonathan Fisher. In the world of startups, we usually put all of our focus on growing the business itself. But what about the founder? How does the leader effectively grow with his or her company? Most entrepreneurs find that mistakes can be a great teacher. Well, today we have an experienced entrepreneur who is here to help save you some pain by sharing some of his most valuable insights from the journey Nakum Kligman as a consultant, executive coach and the founder of several companies, including most recently book like a boss, a SaaS platform for selling services. Nachum, fantastic to have you on the show. Welcome.
Nachum Kligman 0:40
Thank you, John, thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
Jonathan Fischer 0:43
So if you could start us off a little bit, how did you arrive at some of these insights you're going to be sharing with us today during the show.
Nachum Kligman 0:50
So a lot of it has been all of it has been based on the experience, you know, I've been an entrepreneur, since my early teens, you know, it was the guy selling baseball cards, you know, at trade shows shoveling snow, shoveling driveways, you know, from snow, etc. Babysitting even has pretty good babysitter, you know. And so then when I started companies in my, in my mid 20s, and for the last 2530 years or so, I've gained a lot of experience. And actually, I was consulting with somebody the other day. And I told them that listen, the best way to learn how to do something is by experience, even if you're going to fail, when you're young, you can learn so much just by trying and trying to follow your dreams and your passion. But there were several mistakes that I made, you know, over the years that I've definitely learned from and actually implemented them in my current company. So I wouldn't make them twice I you know, it's not really a, I would say it's not a failure if you've learned from it.
And your mic is off,
Jonathan Fischer 1:57
talk to so many entrepreneurs right here on the show. And so many of them will share that the most valuable lessons they've learned had been in the doing. And in many cases, some of the failures turned out to be very profitable for them as they were lessened lessons learned. So tell us a little bit more. How did you begin to? Did you compile these lessons here as part of your work and coaching others? Are you just a good journaler? or what have you done to maybe help capture some of those insights from experiences and mistakes made?
Nachum Kligman 2:27
So that's great question, actually, when I was doing business consulting, which actually led to my current company book like a boss, I actually wrote a book. And because I saw that everything I was telling people that 80% of what I was telling people was the same thing. And only about 20% was just focused on the, you know, on the individual or on that specific business idea. So a lot of it I put together in a book, I also had a podcast, where I would interview other entrepreneurs, and share the different mistakes and tests that we've had. That we have, when you're when an entrepreneur when you're starting in, you know, launching a company
Jonathan Fischer 3:08
will and you shared with me that you have a ready handful of mistakes that are made. So start us off what is maybe the one that you'd like to leave with. It's a key mistake to make for any entrepreneur and a startup.
Nachum Kligman 3:21
So I would say this is something that I see a lot with young, with young founders with young entrepreneurs, right, they get so excited about the idea about starting a business that they turn, they tend to lose focus. And that happens to me a lot, where I would come up with an idea. And instead of focusing on that idea, when I would hear about another idea come with another idea, I would try to do the second idea as well. Or even the third idea that actually happened to me when when I was younger, I had a I was in promotional marketing for about 10 years, where I was selling the different items or embroidered items and logoed items. And what happened was I decided to get into the gift basket business, because I was doing corporate gifts. And I actually I had bought the domain kosher gift baskets.com. And I felt like wow, with that domain. And with the right branding and everything with the right supplier, I could really do well with it. And so I started while I was running my other business, I started to kosher gift baskets.com. And it was crazy, because the day I want you today I ran my first advertisements was Tuesday, September 11 was Tuesday, September 12 2001. The day after September 11 was when my ad first ran. And so I got 00 business from it. And if you remember back to that day it was there was a you know, nobody was buying anything online or even offline. Like everything just shut down. Yeah, um, and so because I didn't stay focused on My original company, you know, I lost, you know, the gift basket company, I started losing money. And then at that same time, a friend of mine calls me who was, you know, I did some business with he printed T shirts. And he told me I should start printing Americana T shirts with the World Trade Center on it and everything else. And I said, that's a really bad idea. So I don't want to make money off such a tragedy. He says, Listen, somebody's going to do it. And sure enough, there was a lot of people that didn't they I know, people that literally made millions of dollars selling T shirts with American flag on it. NYPD had some T shirts, FDNY, etc. And so I said, Okay, you know, what I saw on eBay, people were selling this, and they were selling by the 1000s. And I was getting phone calls from from manufacturers that were faxing us with different ideas and different offers, with Americana on it with American flag on it, etc. And so I said, Okay, forget the gift basket company. Now I'm going into the 911 commemoration business. And so I ordered like 1000s of dollars worth of stuff to sell. And right as my stuff was coming in, like a week or two weeks later, eBay banned the selling of all these things on eBay. And so then I got stuck with all this merchandise. And, you know, I and, and then so now, my original business was failing, my kosher gift basket business was failing. And now my 911 commemoration This is was failing. And I really should just stuck to my DFM if I was passionate about selling promotional items and marketing material, and I had a clientele, I should just focus on that stayed on that not looking for the next Quick business idea. But when you're young, and you're eager, and you just want to like go out there and get an idea, you just, you know, you're sort of running after, quote, unquote, the quick buck instead of staying focused, and trying to build a solid business. And that was one big mistake I made. And a big mistake I see a lot with a lot of young entrepreneurs.
Jonathan Fischer 7:03
So what do you think Spock behind that? Why do you so and I agree, I see this with a lot of entrepreneurs. And and again, especially starting out your younger guy that energy, what do you think that's about being pulled these different directions? If you've done some kind of post analysis of those factors?
Nachum Kligman 7:21
Well, I would say that that comes from a pat, you're passionate that age is to make money and not passionate about the idea itself to make the money. Right? When you get older, and you want to solve problems, you want to solve issues want to actually make the world a better place. Right? So then you tend to stay focused on your passion and your idea, and the money will follow. But when you're young, and you know, you don't have the responsibilities of a family yet, you know, maybe you're still living by your parents, maybe you're just out of college, right? So you just you know, your idea is like, Hey, I just want to be in business, I just want to make a lot of money. And then your passion is for making money as opposed to the idea itself.
Jonathan Fischer 8:01
Yeah, that makes sense. And you're kind of in love with the idea of entrepreneurship, and how much income you can generate. And so that kind of brings up another sort of a follow up insight. It is kind of it sounds like what you're saying is it's pretty important that you are invested in what the business is doing itself. There's there's got to be some connection there is am I getting that right? Yeah,
Nachum Kligman 8:22
Java? Yeah, exactly. Because when you're passionate, there's always going to be challenges and Running Company and growing company, right. And there's always going to be ups and downs. And you can't, if you can't handle the downs, and when a doubt happens, you start running to another way to get up, instead of focusing on fixing the issues of your current company, right, you're just gonna end up failing, right. But if you're passionate about the idea, the problem you're solving, and the company itself, then you're able to get through the bad times and the hardships. And because you're focused and you're passionate about the idea, not necessarily about the money that'll that'll follow when you're successful.
Jonathan Fischer 9:01
Yeah, that makes sense. Well, in addition to not remaining focused on one solid idea, what's another important lesson that you would share with us Nakum.
Nachum Kligman 9:09
So another one that I've seen is not validating the idea, right? Sometimes you'll have an idea. And you'll think, Hey, this is great, this is fantastic. But there's two things you really need to do. And that is one, ask other people ask potential customers, if they're willing to pay for the product, right? Or the pay for to pay what you're what you're trying to solve, because, and also how much they're willing to pay. Right? Because it can be a great idea. And you think, you know, everybody hears the startup stories with with Facebook and Google and all these things where they didn't worry about making money, but you know, that's you're talking about 1/10 of 1% of companies get started. Those are the lucky ones that you hear about that just go viral and do fantastic. And we hear about it because we're all using it. We're all using WhatsApp and Facebook and Instagram etc. Right. But but that's not reality. And I think that sort of distorts reality of how hard it is. is to start a business and run a business and grow business. So you have to make sure that they're that your idea is something that people will pay for. And then you have to make sure that the amount people are willing to pay for it is enough to sustain a successful business. And those are two crucial things I see people mess up all the time, a lot of times they think if they go to potential customers, and they ask that they'll pay for this idea that they're going to then steal their idea and do it themselves. And I mean, it's such a big mistake to be so worried and hold it so close to your chest, that you're not willing to find out what people are actually willing to pay you or to use the product that you want to create. Because if someone's already in business, they're not going to stop what they're doing. Just take your idea and start doing it. Right. It's your idea, it's your passion. But you got to find out and I don't just mean asking friends and family, don't ask friends and family because they're gonna tell you what you want to hear, right? Or maybe what you don't want to hear. But you want you want to actually go to potential clients that don't know you, and find out if they're willing to pay for such a product or service. Right? And if they're, if they are, you know how much you're willing to pay, then you could they say, Hey, for this idea they're willing to pay $100 a month? Well, that's fantastic, is that going to be enough for me to build the team and sustain the business, you know, with such a product, right, considering, you know, customer service, and if it's a software company development and ongoing development, and everything else that goes into a software company, right, you got to make sure that there's enough of a market, enough people that's willing to pay the price, that will be able to cover your costs. And you got to do that before even before you invest your hard earned money or didn't take a bank loan or you know, even get investors. You want to make sure that you have that down. Pat,
Jonathan Fischer 11:42
do you feel like that's something you can do? Primarily online? I mean, establishing product market fit is such a key element. Yeah, the approach you're describing sounds, you know, almost grassroots, you know, you're reaching out to your own warm market your connections? Do you think there is a balance there needed? If you had to pick one? Would you pick one over the other? What are your thoughts on that?
Nachum Kligman 12:04
Yeah, listen, I get the excitement, when you're passionate and idea and stuff and just want to go Go, go go go and build it and get it out there. But again, I think what is it four out of five companies fail within the first five years, right, you don't want to be that company that fails, and you don't want to spend your time and efforts and especially your time and the years that goes into it, just to fail, right? Obviously, you know, even if you fail, you'll learn from the experiences, but nobody goes into a business wanting to fail, anybody believes and truly believes that they're going to be successful, right? But you got to be able to backup your passion and ideas, with the ability to to validate it with with with being able to have a business model that you actually could make money with it.
Jonathan Fischer 12:51
Well, and that, that kind of brings us to another insight that I think you had to share with us. When it comes to assessing your business to be successful. There's a lesson around profits that you were talking to me about earlier.
Nachum Kligman 13:04
Yeah, well, I again, I've made this mistake for I've had a few startups, you know, that I've was able to raise millions of dollars for and, you know, I get passionate about the idea and and you know, I believe in them. Like whenever when I would go to investors, potential investors, angel investors, and tell about the idea and tell them the story. I was fantastic at that. And I would hype it up. Not purposely but just because I really believed that I believed in the potential. And then when that company ultimately failed, you know, is it was hurtful, it was very hurting, because a lot of the people that invest in me were friends or, or friends or people that I knew from the community. And, you know, I wasn't lying to them when, you know, I was passionate about the day when I believed it. And when I said the markets is big and everything like that, but I didn't take the time to to really delve into the finances of how many customers I'll need to get at paying what price in order to pay for it. For example, I one of my one of my earlier startup startups was a company that I was one of the first people to put videos put overlays on top of video. Actually, I have four patents in my in my name. My name in previous company owns it, but where, you know, I looked at this is back in 2005 You know, I saw that YouTube YouTube was just getting started and getting out there. And people were talking about how do I make money with pre roll post roll mid roll ads? And I said what about using video itself and we actually came up with technology to overlay call to action buttons on top of video. But and I said this is there's gonna be great everybody's gonna want this is gonna be fantastic. But the expense especially back in 2005 have what it needed to, to develop the software and to grow it and to build it without thinking about You know, what's the business model? How much will people pay for it? You know, we sort of winged it. And, but when I was pitching it, and especially in the, you know, the first months and year, when I was getting that, that angel money in the first, you know, few $100,000, I didn't think that far ahead, I just thought, hey, this is a killer idea, I'm telling you is going to be awesome. And I was passionate about and I believed in it. And, obviously, video overlays a lot. Now, you know, I was thinking about this back 20 years ago. But I didn't have the business, I didn't really have a clear business model in mind, I was just like, this is gonna work, somehow, we're gonna get 1000s of customers, and they're gonna pay us millions of dollars, and it's gonna be amazing. And, you know, I was just, I was too focused on the idea and the hype, rather than, you know, the, the actual money aspects and business model of it. And, you know, one of the things I did with my current company is, we didn't raise money for the first year and a half. And my partners and I, we basically bootstrapped and, you know, put in the blood, sweat and tears and proved that there was a business model. And not only that, but proved that we can make money with it, before we took any investor money. That was one of the things that I insisted on, and it was painful, it was painful, not having a salary for a year and a half. And it was painful how long things took because my partner was developer, he could only work on at halftime. And so, you know, but I wanted to make sure that before I didn't want to hype I wanted to show. And, you know, that's actually what happened now. You know, it took like a blast for me, when we launched that we, when we launched it after a year and a half. And we showed that there's ways to make money we made 10s of 1000s of dollars, that's when we approached angels.
Jonathan Fischer 16:51
Nice. Well, I mean, you need to think what would Mr. Wonderful ask? Right? If you're a fan of the, of the Shark Tank program, Mr. Wonderful, always wants to know, how has this idea sounds great. How has this idea made money? I think your advice there not have vowed world on your own dime is a great way to impress investors too. That's an additional insight, a lot of our listeners are looking for ways to be funded, there's no better way to be funded than to say, Hey, this is just I'm taking something it's working, this is gonna help us replicate that success. You can't prove that on a whiteboard or in a nicely created report. It has to happen in reality, do you think that there's a need for entrepreneurs to maybe look for a Mr. Wonderful. Today, they can talk to maybe an older entrepreneur or mentor mentor? To help them with this because you can get caught up in your own passion for your idea?
Nachum Kligman 17:48
Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know what, looking back, I guess that was also another mistake that I possibly made. Because I was always headstrong, I was always passionate, and, you know, felt that, you know, believed in myself so much that, you know, that my desire is so good that I didn't take the time to actually speak to mentors. Now, actually, I have. And I've learned from that, and also, every successful entrepreneur that I know, they are constantly reading books and business books and learning from others. And listen to podcasts like this, where you can learn from other people's mistakes, right? It's very important to educate yourself, it's very important to, to speak to mentors, and people love to love to talk shop, you know, you know, even the most successful entrepreneurs, they like to give back, they like to help and they'd like to, to give their advice and help people avoid the mistakes they made.
Jonathan Fischer 18:38
Yeah, I think this is what a lot a lot of young people don't realize is how willing more seasoned business guys are, and gals are to share what they've learned. There's something congenital to the human, the way the Creator put it, as we do like to share, it's what makes us successful, successful as a species, I think. And so take advantage of that. I think the other thing you point out too, is when you're young and you're entrepreneurial, you're clearly a little cocky, or than the next guy or gal, right, you're a little you have that self confidence to go take a risk, which is great. That is an asset. But if but like any asset, it can become an ally liability if it if it takes over. So how does that interact with the next insight I know you're about to share with us about trusting your gut and your own instincts. There is probably a little bit of a balancing act there on that front.
Nachum Kligman 19:28
There is and it's a great question because, you know, one time I believe, you know, when you have to believe enough in your ideas to put in the blood, sweat and tears it takes to get it off the ground and put the team together, etc. But there were times in my entrepreneurial life where I didn't, where I believed in myself and believe my ideas, but I would go head to head with partners. And even though I knew was right, I didn't stand up enough for myself. So it's funny because, you know, I sort of I believed in myself I guess I still had a sense of,
you know, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe someone that I dropped out of high school never went to college, right. And maybe these people with degrees, and you know, even though they didn't have real world experience, but they worked for like Goldman Sachs, or worked for big companies, that maybe they have better ideas, and I didn't trust myself enough to push forward and to sort of force my gut. And I'll give you an example. You know, one of the companies, I started, this is back in 2002, was an instant messaging company, and interoperable messaging company, I was the first person to put an RSS feed in an instant messenger, I put an affiliate mall connected to instant messenger. And this is back in 2000, to 2003. And the company was struggling a little bit, even though we had 10s of 1000s of users in, you know, over 60 countries. But I realized, and I saw that you know, what, that there's a new thing coming up called social networking. And I went, I found a company in California, that was able to take our instant messenger customers and tie them into a social networking platform. And this before that Facebook had just come out Facebook was just in Harvard when this was going on. I think you had what was it? What was that first one? Friendster? Yeah, I think Friendster, right. Maybe they were around. And I said, and I realized, I saw that this is the future. And I believe that social networking was going to be the future. And I went to my partners. And I said, Listen, we have a way to connect our instant messenger to our, to this new thing called social networking. The cost was minimal was like $5,000, just to get on the on the platform. I said, we got to do this. And one of my partners said, well, we can't do that. I said, why not? He says, well, because you're gonna give them a platform and another platform, they could speak bad about us. And I said, but this is the internet. I said, they could speak bad about us anyway. And my partner said, Yeah, but not on our platform. And I said, Listen, this is the vision I have, as the visionary of the company was the idea guy for the company, I said, if we're not going to go in this model, you know, then I'm going to the, I'm going to leave the company. And so I had a, we had another partner, who always voted with this other partner. And so they voted the idea down, and instead of standing up for myself, and proving it and, and insisting on it, which I should have, especially once we saw her, or Facebook lens, etc. And we had a head start, we had 70,000 users, we could have been, you know, you know, a huge social network. But instead, I decided to pack up my stuff and leave, instead of really standing up for myself and trusting myself. And, you know, being that leader, I just, I don't want it I know, our time is limited, but just within another company, also, I was the CEO and visionary the company. And after four years, I gave over the SEO title to one of my partners. And that was a big mistake. Because him and another one my partners that convinced me that was the right thing to do, that they have the experience and the college degrees, and it just looks better. And instead of standing up for myself saying no, this is my company, this is my idea, I started this I brought you guys in, I sort of let them take over and take control. And as an my wife, my wife, you know, she told me I was strong at the time. But I just didn't believe in myself enough, I believed in an idea but didn't believe in myself enough to stand up and say, you know, I don't care what you guys say, This is my company, I'm staying CEO. And that company I ended up at, which actually brings us to the next point. So a bit of a crazy story. But you know, when you take VC investments, or you know, and this is part about the next mistake I made, which is giving up control of your company, right, that you have to believe in yourself enough and believe in your gut, that you're the man to run the company and to bring into success. And even though I believe in the idea, I didn't believe in myself enough. And so when, when I brought in partners that didn't have my best interests in mind, they ended up taking over. And then we similarly when you want to get investors involved, like we had an investor, I want to buy companies and he had put in a couple million dollars. And so he had a lot of control over the company. And then he put us in a situation where this was back in 2010 Right. 2008 There was a huge fall in the markets in 2010 there was another term for the worst. And he basically said I'll give you guys $500,000 to keep the company going. But I want 80% of the company. And I was you know i i At that time I had still like a 78% of the company or so. So I was going to be left with something like 4% But if I didn't do the deal, then the company would fold, then I would have had to fire my 12 employees. And so after building this with blood, sweat and tears for five years, and putting everything I had into it, I, you know, I sort of let this investor push me around. And plus my partners I found out later, we're really connected with with him, but it's another story. And the guy gave us a 500. And I was down to 4%. And so I ended up leaving the company about six months later. And it's so hard because you know, when you build a company, when you put in everything you got into something, it's just so painful when you see that taken away from you. And so don't give up control, whether it's to partners, whether it's to VCs, or investors, right, you should always be taking control of the company, because it's your blood, sweat, and tears, not theirs, that puts them together. And it's really painful when you lose that. And you're thankfully, the boss, I do have a partner who was absolutely amazing. And he's the CTO. But when we started the company, we had a piece of paper, and we wrote down, this is what I'm the decision maker on and this is what your decision maker on. Right. He was in charge of technology. And I was in charge of the business aspects, the idea, the vision, and everything else. And we agreed to that. And it's been a blessing we never had, you know, we're doing this for seven years now. And we never had a disagreement that, you know, that we couldn't come to terms with. Because, you know, it's just understood from the beginning. This is your role, this is my role. And we're, we're great friends, and we're, you know, great partners, and, you know, book, like a boss from all my companies has been by far the biggest success that we've had so far in, you know, 30 years of being an entrepreneur. And that is because a lot of these mistakes I've made in the past, you know, I set up that we wouldn't, I wouldn't make those again, with this company.
Jonathan Fischer 26:50
You've you've, you've made them pay you back. And then some I love it. Well, going a little bit deeper on this giving up control. I mean, he's famous story, Steve Jobs is the first one that popped to mind. But there's many, there are many others out there. Could you share a little bit further? What are some of the lessons that you? Here's what I actually mean to ask you? How did you avoid getting yourself back in that position? How did you do a better job of picking partner this time around? That's what I want to ask you?
Nachum Kligman 27:19
That's that's a great question. So my partner David, we were we worked together on another project, another company previously, so I saw I thought we were friends. So like, I knew him for a couple years already. I saw his work ethic, I saw how talented he was. And so, you know, when we're starting this company together, again, making that definitive line of of what Hill, he's the decision maker on what I'm a decision maker on, there was just no, you know, we set it up in a way that there would be no disagreements. And if we did have a disagreement, this is who we know, we chose a person who would go to and listen to whatever they have to say, that way we know there's a mechanism in place. And, you know, if we ever had a disagreement, it would go to a third party that would handle it. You know, and thankfully, again, we've never had to do that. And it's not like, things have been easy, you know, but like a boss, you know, we're we're doing extremely well now. But, you know, took a, you know, there's a lot of years and a lot of ups and downs and a lot of challenges. But, you know, choosing the right partner is is so key, and also being clear, like a lot of times you right, even with Facebook, you know, he had, he had a few other partners that brought in and you know, and what turns when things weren't clear. And I've seen this mistake, a lot of times, sometimes you just have an idea. And you get your buddies and then you're like you're starting in your college dorm room, and then like it starts to take off and you raise money like, well, who owns what, who's the decision maker? Who? How much equity does each person have? Why should you have more equity? Why should I have less equity? Right? Be clear from the beginning, from day one, be clear what your responsibility even though obviously, everybody wears many hats in the startup world when you're first getting started. But be very clear and write it down so that there's no misconception. And then every person every every founder or co founder understands what the role is, what the decision is and how much equity they have from the beginning. That way, there's no disappointments down the line and everybody's clear. And actually happened with with another one of my previous company, again, experience where we had set terms with set rules, you know, me and my two partners, one partner had 20% I had 40% and my other partner had 40%. And so when we decided to take the company in a different direction, where my partner had more experience in that area, he said listen, even though we've been working on this for a year already, but I have more experience in this area, and therefore I want more equity in it. And I was like well that's not fair. That's not right. But he said listen, either. We're gonna do that you're gonna give me more equity. or I'm gonna leave the company and start my own. And it was just so bad. It ruined our friendship. We were good friends before that. And when he refused to acknowledge and agree to our terms, just because things change, it was actually my idea even to go that direction. But when when you don't follow the paths, and you don't follow, you know, what you agreed upon, it could destroy friendships. And eventually that business collapsed. Awesome.
Jonathan Fischer 30:29
Yeah, people like to say it's not personal, it's business. It's always, everything's always personal. Yeah, really? Well, speed personnel.
Nachum Kligman 30:41
What does that mean? I mean, we're human beings, you have to treat people with respect with love. We were talking about that before. Yeah. Right. It but just because something is business doesn't give you the right to stampede over somebody, right? Whether it's a partner, someone that works for you, or a customer, or, you know, you have to treat everybody with love and respect. And I just don't get as well, it's just business. No, it's personal. We're only here for what, 8090 years in this world, right? treat people how you want to be treated, you know, give respect to everybody, and they'll respect you. And, you know, those are rules I live by. And it kills me when I see other people that don't live towards that and say, you know, they put their their faith in the in the mighty dollar, as opposed to, you know, in what's really important in this world,
Jonathan Fischer 31:29
the Golden Rule can carry you very far, great reminder will not come. It's been a really great conversation today. Clearly you are a wealth of insights to share. And I know the listener has gleaned an awful lot already. How can he or she go further with you? How can they follow up and learn more? I know you have this great SAS platform for booking additional business, where would they best find that?
Nachum Kligman 31:51
So the best place to be book like a boss, you could go to blab dla b.co. And you can learn more about book like a boss start a 14 day free trial. If you need any type of scheduling. Or if you're selling a service, you could just sign up 14 day free trial over there. If you want to find me if I'm on LinkedIn, I'm Kligman and you could connect with me over there as well. Or on Twitter, you can find me on Twitter at Kligman.
Jonathan Fischer 32:19
Okay, beautiful. Well not gonna thank you so much for the insights and being a great addition to our fantastic content on the show. Fantastic to have you today.
Nachum Kligman 32:30
Thank you, Jonathan. Thanks so much for having me. And thank you listeners
Jonathan Fischer 32:33
for making the show such a success. And we also want to thank our fantastic sponsor, we are proudly powered by overpass.com. Overpass is the absolute leading platform for gaining phone based talent to grow your company quickly. It's free to create your account highly affordable to move forward once you find the fantastic hire. So go create an account. See how it works. It's overpass.com Well, that'll do it for today's show. Jonathan Fisher signing off. We'll see you next time here on the Evolve sales leader.